- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
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Lol just stop being poor and everything will be fine. Trust me.
Just make sure you choose rich parents when getting conceived smh
The irony being that the boomers who say the “builds character” shit had a vastly easier life compared to their parents and grandparents, who fought literal world wars. They think all societal change before them was good (including stuff like colonialism which they see as “civilizing” the savage natives) but any progress after them is the devil because it means they might have to change their behaviour or worldviews, hell, or even the idea that people they think are less than them getting less disadvantaged and oppressed than before which I guess make them jealous or something?
this one makes me mad. the sheer entitlement.
Life being worse ensures you never get any power.
and everything is harder to accomplish
that’s the unspoken goal.
If “Life being worse builds character” then most billionaires don’t have it built.
I think you might be onto something fr.
Yeah things were “better” under the Soviet Union.
They certainly were, both better then before and after
They were. The large majority of people who lived in the soviet union regret its fall. The introruction of capitalism and the destruction of the socialist system caused metrics like life expectancy, home ownership, quality of life, and more to plummet while poverty, starvation, prostitution, and drug abuse skyrocketed.
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People love getting high on nostalgia when things aren’t looking up well in the present moment. Even many of those who were under fascism are nostalgic of it. That’s the point of nostalgia: only remembering the good parts of the past while pretending the bad never happened.
“sure, the people living there say that it was better under communism, but obviously they’re too stupid and foreign to know what they think. Only I, the enlightened westerner, can truly judge if things are better, which I will do based on vague vibes that I can’t identify the source of”
“People hated living under communism just ask them”
Actually you’ll find most people preferred living under communism
“They’re just blinded by nostalgia”
So you can’t just ask people about what it was like under communism?
“No you can, if you did you’d find they all hated it”
“I like to say I love communism without under duress.”
“I love communism not because I am a card-carrying party member.”
“The fact that more people fled from communist countries than coming in means those people are crazy.”
Least incoherent anti communist
That’s literally the opposite of what happened here, you dumbass
BrainInAWesternerBox larping as BrainInAnEasternerBox.
Most intellectual anti communist
That doesn’t explain the rise of communist party membership, nor can you wash away the fact that quality of life metrics were higher in the soviet union for the most part than they are today in post-soviet countries.
The metrics probably doesn’t include those who were in gulags and died of famines.
The rise in communist party membership you speak of maybe increased by 100%, when two new members joined an already two member communist party.
Wake me up when communist slogans are getting viral on Tiktok and Instagram, and if communists are getting elected in huge numbers on national level across the world.
They do. For starters, famine was ended after the 1930s (outside of World War II), and prison death rates weren’t astronomically high nor were prison populations particularly high either.
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As for increase in communist party membership, over four years, more than 63,000 people have become CPRF members, with most of the new recruits being young people under 30 and “people of prime working age.”.
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The expansion and astronomical growth of grassroot movements like the Inmortal Regiment. This movement grew so large that plenty of countries around the world organized a similar march. It started small until it grew in a international movement.
There are other examples, but it’s clearly on the rise.
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The metrics probably doesn’t include those who were in gulags and died of famines
Yes they do, you confidently incorrect, arrogant moron.
Have you tried reading the primary sources for that article? It implies that the people who think their country is worse off since the fall of the USSR want a return to the USSR. However, the questions that the article doesn’t discuss has a majority of people saying that they value the institutions of democracy very highly, which doesn’t suggest that that’s the case.
The USSR was democratic, so it isn’t in contradiction. I’d prefer more surveys to be taken that directly ask questions on preference for socialism vs capitalism, ie a return to the soviet system directly rather than simply asking if they are better or worse off. What we do know is that in countries like Russia and Belarus, there is a strong resurgance in soviet pride and communist party registration.
Again, I can only suggest reading the primary data, rather than relying on openly biased reporting. One of the key democratic principles which is so highly valued is “honest multiparty elections”.
I do read the primary data, and it’s also true that in many formerly socialist countries there’s surging sympathies for socialism and surging communist party membership.
I mean, you clearly didn’t read the primary data in this case, because if you had you wouldn’t have believed it to support the idea that the people surveyed wanted to return to the soviet era.
I did, and I believe it’s a strong indicator of wishing to return to socialism, especially when combined with other metrics like huge increases in communist party membership and soviet pride.
You’re an idiot
Not the biggest fan of the USSR - but compared to the capitalism that followed, yeah, they were
Compared to other capitalist countries it was worse during Soviet times too. Average US life expectancy at the USSRs peak in 1986 was approx. 75 years old, whereas in the USSR the average is 5 years less… Quite substantial.
“A previously feudal society didn’t fully catch up to the biggest capitalist superpower! That means communism doesn’t work!”
Not what I said.
Also, where the Soviet Union fairly quickly seemed to plateau off with their life expectancy, the PRC managed to much more continuously trend upwards. Not necessarily faster than the SU at first (which makes sense), but they did manage to keep the momentum whereas the SU did not.
I mean, you did compare the US with the USSR, which is misguided because of what I highlighted. I agree the USSR made many mistakes we must learn from.
Compared to other capitalist countries it was worse during Soviet times too.
Your daily reminder that western liberals don’t think non western countries are real.
Japan’s life expectancy was even higher than most of those in the west.
Sure, plenty of developing capitalist nations had barely caught up at that point (e.g. South Korea). But they did manage to keep a positive trend going, whereas the SU had levelled off and wasn’t improving anymore.
That the only developing countries you can think of are Japan and SK very much demonstrates my point.
You said “non-western”. I named two. If you want to shift goalposts further that’s fine but don’t act like you’re being all smart or anything.
Even for other developing countries the overall trend is clear: continuous rise in life expectancy, leveling off as it gets closer to 80. The SU plateaud just below 70 and remained there until its fall (after which it rose again). The vast majority of developing nations do not show this pattern of levelling off early.
Take Iran, or the Philippines, or even Vietnam (bar the civil war). All of them didn’t level off like the Soviets did. Same thing in other socialist countries like Cuba and the PRC.
It indicates a fairly severe mismanagement that the Soviet Union is one of the very, very few countries that managed to keep their life expectancy at 67-68 for over 20 years, when other countries kept rising and a good number had already surpassed them. Only after the year 2000 did they manage a sustained growth in life expectancy, rising to 73 after dropping to 64 (likely levelling off a little now due to the war in Ukraine).
The argument was that under the Soviet Union life was better. That may have been true when compared directly to the very tumultuous fall that directly followed. But the reality is that growth of life expectancy had completely stagnated in Soviet Union (it was even declining very slightly). It only started rising again after Russia had mostly stabilised post-fall, and is now higher than it’s ever been.
Imagine trying to paint “correctly pointing out that Japan and SK are not remotely representative of the developing world in general” as “moving the goal post”. My god, it is so obvious you people just parrot these phrases after seeing them on Reddit and thinking that they’re magic incantations that make you “win” an argument.
The irony of this meme is what really makes it hilarious
Lately I feel like the uncle who drops in occasionally and is like “wow this is a terrible thing you all have going here, and none of you are making it better, mazel tov” and leaves, my pockets stuffed with weed money.
Honestly if people want communism and socialism to be taken seriously you gotta drop all the soviet imagery.
“If you want people to take communism seriously you have to concede everything to the people who hate communism!”
That’s literally been the strategy taken by leftist in the US since the 1940’s and it’s only gotten worse and worse, to the point that people like Obama, Harris, and even Biden get labelled as “socialist.” It literally does not matter how much you try to avoid being associated with the USSR or other socialist states, you will be accused of being like them if you try to do anything even remotely good. So, since that’s going to happen anyway, we might as well stop punching left and stop letting misinformation about such states run wild out of fear of being associated with them.
OK, face of Karl Marx then. The German guy who never even set foot in the USSR.
Oh wait you think that’s bad too.
What about Mao-no.
What about Che Guev-no.
Ho Chi-no.
Venez-no.
What about the Paris commune? No? Still bad in your mind?
Marxist Austria? Nah I’m sure the army that put an end to that is preferable according to you. They called themselves socialist with none of the Soviet imagery after all!
Even if we completely rebranded socialism you’d make it your mission to add the Soviet imagery back in and remind everyone of it. Like y’all do for decidedly capitalist bandaids like student loan forgiveness or food stamps that don’t even have anything to do with socialism.
Americans threw Eugene Debbs in jail for protesting WW1. Americans unleashed the national guard on college campuses at Columbia and Kent State and on anti-homeless activists in Chicago and police reformer in Baltimore and Ferguson and now LA and New Orleans, in an endless war on anyone that even smelled slightly of whatever we’re defining as Marxist of late. These are people who spend God only knows how much money and manpower to put a surveillance dragnet around The Quackers, while screaming from the pulpit about how there’s no such thing as religious freedom anymore.
Even if we completely rebranded socialism you’d make it your mission to add the Soviet imagery back in and remind everyone of it.
They brand Donald Trump as a Soviet Socialist. It’s utterly divorced from reality.
drop all the soviet imagery
if people want communism
Tell you what, we’ll stop venerating Actual Existing Socialists when you guys quit dry humping plantation owners and genocidal war mongers.
Get Jefferson of the $20 and I promise never to quote Stalin again.
I’ll let the various communist parties currently in power in countries like the PRC, Vietnam, etc. to distance themselves from the hammer and sickle, as you don’t personally take them seriously.
Yeah, it’s just me. lol.
I’m not aware of people not taking parties like the CPC, CPV, etc seriously.
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Okay, cool. I’ll continue to organize with groups that uphold existing socialism, rather than throw it under the bus for an easy rhetorical strategy that has always backfired by legitimizing anti-communist narratives.
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The symbolism used by communist parties around the world, both in power and not, is a symbol of working class internationalism that trancends borders. Any genuine socialist is going to be slandered and drug under the dirt anyways, abandoning the socialist movement around the world just to try to kick that can down the road just a tiny bit means throwing away allies. It’s why the TERF movement is worse for cis feminists, and why trans-inclusionary feminism gains more traction.
White people were put off by the civil rights movement. We don’t have the choice to abandon things based on popularity. Plus the symbols are cool.
done and done. doesn’t work.
oh but try to change the system from the inside, with you knowledge and stuff.
done too, doesn’t work either.
None of these have been done.
You’ve done nothing, and pretend it doesnt work.
Communists have successfully created socialist states through revolution. Throwing socialist states under the bus backfires.
This response doesnt even seem congruent with mine. Im not even sure what you;re responding to here.
I’m responding directly to your suggestion that we should abandon solidarity with socialist states, and that revolution has never worked.
He’s responding to your nonsense.
they have, insistently. and you literally don’t know me.
look into the history of leftist movements, and don’t be an asshole.
they have, insistently.
Where?
A few people trying to try something doesnt mean they succeeded at trying said things.
I mean, here we are on lemmy where people insist on nonsensical revolutions and have hated the idea of working to change parties; the only pragmatic solution, for ever.
look into the history of leftist movements, and don’t be an asshole.
Calling me an asshole implicitly, after asking me to make your argument for you is actual asshole behaviour.
what do you mean where bro. it’s everywhere. south america had a pink wave, and it’s going through another of sorts atm. it’s your continent, how do you not know that. the US is very much biased to the far right, but it’s common in the rest of the world for demsocs to pop up.
entryism has a long history of not going well, either.
look things up instead of being contrarian and coming here just to get angry with people.
I don’t think further conversation on this chain will be productive. Spouting irrelevant rhetoric with strenuous relations while completely neglecting any of the points I’ve made can only go so far.
Also, to call me a contrarian, while being unable to acknowledge that you have a severe marketing issue I think is a great microcosm of the attitudes here.
You feel that being angry and isolated enough will somehow spread change, forgetting that you’re probably in the sub 1% in terms of groups of people, and haven’t made a dent into the other 99%
i literally answered your question very directly and specifically. i cited a rich historical example you could look into and see for yourself.
you too have to want to have a conversation. i agree this chain will not be productive anymore, have a nice day.
Truly.
They are not representative of what any sane person wants.
They absolutely are, they made the world’s first socialist state and that came with dramatic improvements for the working classes. Don’t use ableism.
I love how this thread is like microcosm of westolefto. We got decaying carcass of kautskyism sprinkled by raw cointelpro, dbzeroer anticommunist, solarpunk asspull nonsense and of course .worlder who starts with ableism plus another one who gets angry when provided with evidence.
The gang’s all here!
I don’t even know what to respond to a comment like this except to point out that you are absolutely hurting every cause you say you believe in with rhetoric like this.
No, I’m not, and I know because I do real life organizing work too.
Damn right! All that immagery and symbolism is a real dealbreaker for me too!
