Good thing the Black Book of Communism, the only source asserting a number as high as 100 million deaths due to Communism, has been thoroughly debunked due to errors such as

1. Counting Nazis killed during World War II as deaths due to Communism
2. Counting non-births as deaths due to Communism
3. Counting people killed by the Nazis as deaths due to Communism
4. Making numbers up in order to hit the 100 million mark for the “clickbait” of it all
5. And much, much more.

As always, incredible job and fantastic research, comrade. That was a fascinating read (and sickening, too).

I didn’t say all, I listed a couple sources I know are. You didn’t make any point.

Linking a bunch of Wikipedia pages isn’t really a point, especially with propaganda outlets like HRW and Amnesty International featured prominently as sources. A country being Socialist doesn’t mean it’s a perfect wonderland, just that public ownership is the principle aspect of its economy.

By and large, though, these countries do much better than Capitalist peer countries, with higher life expectancies, literacy rates, lower poverty rates, and more. Further, they are usually the targets of large sanctions and embargoes, and subject to constant western propagandizing and myth making.

If you have a specific thing you’re curious about, we can go in depth and try to separate fact from fiction, or contextualize them. If not, and you’re just going to call countries “ass” because they protect their economies from US financial Capital, then there’s not much to discuss.

And I’d be down to live in China for a few years, or Vietnam, for sure. Wouldn’t want to move away from my family for the long run though.

Your original comment is that it’s impossible for a liberal to turn into a fascist. The reality of fascism and liberalism is that they are ideological justifications for the same system in different circumstances, they aren’t competing schools of thought or anything.

Liberalism and fascism are descriptors for superstructural ideology sprouting from the same base in different circumstances. The liberal Weimar Republic quickly became the fascist Nazi Germany not out of a pivot in underlying ideas, necessarily, but due to the natural changing material conditions the same Mode of Production found itself in.

Liberalism and fascism are tied.

Such as?

Russia is no longer guided by Communist leadership, but both the PRC and former USSR are examples of countries led by Communists, with Socialist systems. Same with Cuba, the DPRK, Vietnam, Laos, and more.

Liberalism and fascism are the same ideology in different economic and social circumstances. That’s why the saying goes “scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds,” the underlying system supported by both is heavily based on the private ownership of the means of production.

Wait, y’all are getting Xibucks? I want mine… 😔

Yea, I was going along with you, lol

“Peasants and workers,” I see.

Can you elaborate?

The lack in certainty at the extent of the excesses in the Russian Revolution primarily stems from separating what actually happened on the ground, and what was reported in Western countries via anti-communist propaganda. Revolution is bloody business, and the Tsarists resisting the Russian Civil War fought hard against the newly Socialist society emerging, as well as 14 Capitalist countries that had invaded to shut down the revolution.

All governments are oppressive, what matters is which class is doing the oppressing. In the Soviet Union, the Proletariat had taken control, and wielded the power of the state to shut down fascists, Tsarists, and the bourgeoisie. The outcome was quite positive for the Working Class. Throughout the history of the Soviet Union, immense strides were made.

Free healthcare, childcare, and education were provided. Literacy rates tripled to 99.9%, life expectancy doubled from the 30s to the 70s, and the USSR managed to go from feudalism to space in half a century as a consequence. Women’s rights were expanded greatly. The Red Army also liberated the world from the threat of the Nazis, having been responsible for the taking of Berlin, and 90% of the total Nazi deaths. Wealth inequality shrank dramatically, while economic growth boomed. The USSR also supported national liberation movements against Colonialism and Imperialism, in countries like Cuba, Algeria, Korea, China, Vietnam, and Palestine.

All in all, Lenin indeed was an oppressor from the perspective of the bourgeoisie. However, from the perspective of the proletariat, he was a hero, and is celebrated as a liberator from the oppression of the Tsar.

We don’t need to dogmatically idolize, but I openly admire his contributions both to the Marxist Canon and to the working class movements in general. His contributions in theory and in practice have been vital for Socialism.

Is your problem with power corrupting, or unchecked power? What counts as a significant check?

Concepts being old do not make them real. Few worship the gods of ancient Greece these days. Trying to appeal to the notion of “power,” or some other concept of people occupying administrative, managerial, supervisory, etc roles automatically turning “corrupt,” ie bad, evil, etc on the notion of common sense gets us no closer to the truth.

What matters, and what I find to be far more observable, is societal organization around the basis of class. Your schoolteacher has power, but likely isn’t some evil person. Likewise, managers in factories play vital roles, as do government administrators.

Where the idea of power corrupting comes from, in my view, is a misanalysis of class society and its organizational superstructure. We can move beyond class while retaining administration, organization at a central level, etc. It isn’t about finding “pure” humans, but about altering the base so the superstructure can be altered in turn.

“Federated” like email is. There are different “instances,” you are on Lemmy.world, I am on Lemmy.ml. We can talk to each other because Lemmy.world and Lemmy.ml are federated, ie linked, just like Lemmy.world is linked with many other instances. Unlike Lemmy.ml though, Lemmy.world is defederated from instances like Hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, so while I can see them and interact, you cannot. That’s a good thing for some people, and bad for others, the “free speech absolutists” tend to like Lemm.ee or other general purpose instances federated with as many instances as possible.

Each instance has its own rules, communities, and flavors, so each can provide something unique. Lemmy.world is a generalist instance, like Lemmy.ml.

As for nostialgia for the Socialist system, it’s well-documented. Polling is consistently favorable towards the Socialist system, even if we check different polls. There are a number of reasons for this, from simple nostalgia to the old days to simple fondness for youth, but the most consistent answer is economically.

Contrary to your suggestions of mass starvation, outside of the struggles with collectivization in the 1930s and World War II, where the Nazis took Ukraine (the USSR’s breadbasket) at the start of the war, food was secure. The CIA even documented this internally, favorably comparing the nutrition to US nutrition. This is also supported by a doubling of life expectancy from the Tsarist system, gradually increasing over time.

The biggest reason why Soviet nostalgia exists, is because life was easier for the working class. There was comprehensive and free healthcare, education, and childcare, housing was affordable, economic growth was consistently rapid and positive while wealth inequality was low, and there was a general degree of hope throughout. Scientific achivement was celebrated, including the first man and first woman in space, despite being feudal half a century before. Stephen Gowens has a good article titled Do Publicly Owned, Planned Economies Work? that goes over the myriad strengths of the Soviet Economy, as well as where it faltered, and partially why the USSR was eventually dissolved.

With the dissolution of the Socialist system came a collapse of the economy. Prostitution, drug abuse, crime, and poverty all skyrocketed. New luxuries were available for those who could afford them, but an estimated 7 million people died from the lack of food security throughout the world due to the economic collapse.

The reasons behind its dissolution included the following problems:

1. Liberal reforms that gave the Bourgeoisie power over key industries (such reforms were actually a major desire of the 1968 Dubcek platform, in even greater quantity, hence why it was shut down by neighboring Warsaw Pact countries)

2. A firm dedication to planning by hand even as the economy grew more complex and computers too slow to be adapted to the planning mechanisms

3. A huge portion of resources were spent on maintaining millitary parity with the US in order to dissuade US invasion

4. 80% of the combat done in World War II was on the Eastern Front, and 20 million Soviets lost their lives, with no real economic support from the West in rebuilding despite taking the largest cost of war

5. An enclosed, heavily sanctioned economy relied on internal resource gathering, closed off from the world market

Countries like the PRC have taken to heart what happened in the USSR. As an example, the PRC shifted to a more classically Marxist economy, focusing on public ownership of only the large firms and key industries, and relying on markets to develop out of private ownership. This keeps them in touch with the global economy without giving the bourgeoisie control of key industries, and thus the bourgeoisie has no power over the economy or the state.

The PRC is where the USSR is really succeeded. It’s an astounding achievement, and proof that Socialism not only works, but excels, and is indisputably the way foward, all the way into Communism. There are also other Actually Existing Socialist states that carry the torch, such as Cuba, the DPRK, Vietnam, Laos, and to a smaller extend Kerala, the Sahel States, Venezuela, Belarus, and more.

To be fair, these kinds of posts normally don’t attract people agreeing with the post to write about why they agree, but people disagreeing and then people countering. This is a very repeatable experience.

Lemmy is federated, Lemmy.world is more of a “liberal echo-chamber” while an instance like Lemmygrad.ml is going to be more Marxist-Leninist. There’s also Hexbear.net, which has Marxists and Anarchists alike in a united anti-Capitalist space. I don’t personally agree with the idea that a Communist echo chamber in the West can exist, all Communists in the West exist in a system that overwhelmingly demonizes us at every turn, we can’t shut out liberal ideas even if we wanted to. Meanwhile, liberal echo chambers can exist, as liberalism is the status quo.

As for Lenin, I admire him greatly, overall. His analysis of Imperialism, contributions to the National Question, and creation of successful revolutionary strategy are critical to the Marxist Canon. Lenin helped create the world’s first Socialist state, itself a tremendously progressive force for its own working class and a liberatory movement globally in areas such as Cuba, Algeria, China, Korea, Angola, Vietnam, Palestine, and more.

He’s also a really funny writer, in that he always manages to shit-talk Kautsky for his opportunism, and the ultimate betrayal of the Working Class by Kautsky’s Second International.

I wouldn’t call Marxists creating our own spaces outside corporate-controlled media like Reddit “wild,” it’s a natural conclusion. If Marxists are demonized in corporate media and censored, we will create our own spaces where we won’t be silenced.