• Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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    6 hours ago

    Someone hearing for the first time that Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher are staunch liberals.

        • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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          1 hour ago

          Classical liberalism is an iteration of liberalism. It is not liberalism. There are also Democratic liberalism and social liberalism among many others. Almost all lean left of center with classic liberalism being more center

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            52 minutes ago

            Yea but neoliberals are not left. The fuck do you think US democrats are classic liberals? Also classic liberals are still capitalist supporting fuckwits, so the distinction is irrelevant when discussing the modern left.

            • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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              47 minutes ago

              Right and there is more than classic liberalism. As I said. The majority of the others are left of center with classic liberalism being the outlier. Of which, Democrats still are right of classic liberalism

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics.

        We’re against liberalism as a whole because it’s the ideology that justifies capitalism. We’re against social liberals because they’re seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers.


        This is a very introductory overview to liberalism:

        The most in-depth delving into it is Losurdo’s Liberalism - A counter history, but you’d have to read many more foundational texts before that one.

        • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law.[1][2] Liberals espouse various and often mutually conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.[4][5]: 11

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

          Emerging together does not mean they are dependent on each other.

          • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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            4 hours ago

            How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s?

            Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can’t.

            • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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              3 hours ago

              😆

              Do you even read bro

              Yes I read. Like how I read that Wikipedia link and the other supporting links and references I’ve posted. All saying liberalism is left.

        • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          Yea but you’re all not authority on any of this. So it doesn’t matter. The rest of the world knows liberalism as left of center. Just facts