honey look, freedom of expression and the right to protest in America just
gotdropped.Let’s not keep making the mistake of assuming Trump’s tweets have force of law. He’s just talking out of his ass again, just like he’s not actually invading greenland and canada. Notice how he’s talking about at least 4 different actions here, I’m pretty sure none of which he can actually do. 5 if you count thanking us for our attention to this matter (?). If Trump tries to do anything in this regard no judge* will uphold it.
*Obligatory other than Clarence Thomas
People in power do what he says. His word is de facto law, even if it’s illegal. It literally does not matter. You are in denial if you think he’s not going to get away with this.
“…illegal protest…”?
Oh right, the US Constitution doesn’t exist any more.
Next time an american speaks about “muh first amendment”, “USA only free speech country in the world” bullshit, show them this
Correct
I mean just to be fair isn’t it illegal to have a huge protest without informing the authorities first? Also violent protests would be illegal too, right?
These assumptions are based on similar laws from other countries. But I don’t really believe Trump is talking about those protests or just planning to forbid them from getting permission to happen.
I swallowed my misgivings and voted Democrat, just like I’ve done at each election since I turned 18, but handwaving away valid criticisms is not how you get people to side with you. Pressure needs to be put on the democrats to be better, too.
Shielding the Democrats from the pressure to adopt more popular positions lost this election.
Yep, I voted D like I always did…
But I spent a lot of time ringing any alarm bell I could find that all of Joe and Kamal’s moves to the right was gonna cost us the election, and that the victory fund would lose the House and Senate.
I was right on all counts, but the people I was trying to explain it won’t admit that reality proved them wrong.
There’s no criticism for what the party did wrong, only anger at anyone with higher standards than the letter by the name.
Neoliberals want nothing as much as they want blindly loyal Dem voters, it’s the only way most people ever hold their noses and vote for one. But rather than have a candidate dem voters want, they’d rather risk trump.
When they shut on voters like in that meme, they’re telling us they have zero problem watching the country burn. They’d rather have trump than a Dem who agrees with Dem voters.
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The argument, was the least bad between two bads. This is way worse than the alternative would ever get
handwaving away valid criticisms
If you look carefully, you’ll find statements about how “neither option affects [this particular thing] but we have the best chance of fixing it after the election if we still have a country”.
It was never handwaved. It was the least-worse option with some kind of hope given that issue and a thousand others. How many times this has fucking been fucking explained and not fucking understood.
Uh yes it was definitely hand-waved away by some “if you look carefully”. It was only the “least-worse option” because so many were successfully manipulated by the system into being placated with crumbs so they wouldn’t revolt at the thousands of other reasons we’ve had for years to fight back against this shit, pushing the Overton window to the right in increments and leading folks to not use or even possess or be taught in the first place the critical thinking skills required to inform oneself and take steps to make positive change, in this system designed to intentionally misinform and mislead us and pit us against each other so we vote for the same rich white men responsible for perpetuating this system and the harm it brings to all of us, especially marginalized communities.
I would recommend to you (and anyone who is interested in informing themselves on what is being done to us) to read “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein. It details this process of incremental change, and some of the strategies and parties previously and currently involved in taking control of our government (or at this point more like what’s left of it).
(For clarity: I’m not saying both parties are the same, although their goals, tactics, and policies seem less different to me as time passes; I’m not making any general statement passing blame to any group of voters or non-voters in this comment, because I believe the bulk of the responsibility lies on the system and those who hold sway over large parts of it in the form of currency or legislation, for example; I’m not denying or invalidating that you may feel this way and/or believe it is true, I’m taking issue with your statement that “it was never handwaved”, because I most certainly saw that happen and know people who to this day are clinging to that sentiment; I’m not saying harm reduction isn’t the move or good policy, it is but there has to simultaneously be work being done on reducing or removing the source of that harm)
Edit: sorry for run-on sentences. working on it gradually and open to feedback
No one is hand waving away anything by asking people to vote
Pressure needs to be put on the democrats to be better, too.
They’re already 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x better than Republicans. So someone would have to be pretty goddamn stupid not to vote for them when the options are them or Republicans.
The majority of the fault isn’t on Democrats. It’s on goddamn stupid braindead asshole American voters for being goddamn stupid braindead assholes.
Biden also surpressed student protests. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is
Putting Genocide Joe in scare quotes. Libs are going fully mask-off in this thread.
Blue MAGA
If the Democrats wanted me to vote for their candidate they should have picked one that didn’t suck balls
Nobody pushing genocide is worthy of votes or support.
It was incumbent on Dems to EARN votes, and they failed spectacularly. You’re wrong to try blaming voters for failings of our corrupt politicians.
Will you still be saying that when Trump puts a resort in Gaza?
Trump has made it crystal clear: He plans for the complete and total ethnuc cleansing of Gaza. All Palestinians will be killed or removed
That’s what Arab and Palestinian Americans chose when they voted for Trump
So according to you, the palestinians voted for trump and therefore deserve to be genocided???
Tell me, how exactly would arab and palestinian people have been able to vote for trump? And why would they do that?
Of course you dont have proof either because votes are secret, so, because you suspect some palestinians of voting for trump you want them all genocided???
Will you still be saying that when Trump puts a resort in Gaza?
Yes. Will you refuse to demand electoral reform in your state so the people of this nation can vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect? Will you refuse to do anything about those who are without representation? Will you refuse democracy?
Virtue signaling doesn’t wash blood off your hands sweetie
While I did vote blue conservative (for the last time), they were not worthy of that vote because they did not represent me. That’s how representative democracy works. What you advocate for is not representative democracy, it is a hostage situation and should be treated like the crisis that that entails.
Why are you okay with people being underrepresented at the voting booth? Are you actively working to replace First Past the Post voting in your state? People should have the freedom to vote for the candidates they believe are best, while still ensuring their votes count against those they don’t want in office.
It’s not as though democrats are just now learning of the mathematical flaws of FPTP. Every election I’ve seen the same bullshit excuses to take people’s inalienable right to vote how they want. Democrats in blue states made a choice to leave a huge portion of the population unrepresented, all for safe states and easy elections.
We don’t need to wait for a miracle from Congress, we can pass election reform one state at a time. Should we have more elections, we must remove the democratic monopoly on this fight against the republicans. Don’t worry, blue conservative, you will be free to vote for your preference under a more representative electoral system. Because who would want to deny someone the right to vote for the person they feel is best? You apparently.
Alaska has already abolished FPTP voting. After Ranked Choice Voting kept Sarah Palin out of office, Alaskan Republicans tried to pass a referendum to revert to FPTP, but the people voted to keep Ranked Choice. Why would you want to use the same voting system that Republicans favor? Do you support democracy, or do you get off on forcing people unrepresented in government to vote for your preference?
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
I feel a lot of people do a lot to justify stupid behaviour. “Saving is too hard” or “exercise is too hard”. There’s legit reasons to not be able to save, or exercise or being able to vote 🤨.
However there’s a lot of bullshit that people were spouting. It’s either a coordinated campaign or just dumb shit. What annoys me is everyone piling on Joe and then they did what people wanted and swapped to Kamala and they’re still upset that the Dems “don’t listen”. Whatever, they’re all full of it.
I fucking hate the Democrats but you have to be completely psycho to justify not-voting for them.
To be clear, I’m Canadian and I’m directly impacted by this now. So fuck all of those people.
Your comment’s downvotes = how many profoundly stupid people who STILL haven’t learned from their mistake there are out there.
At the time I read your comment.
Ahh. This bullshit trope from the class of people basically responsible for Trump winning the 2024 election.
Sorry, did you just blame the people who didn’t vote for Trump for being responsible for Trump being president? Interesting mental gymnastics there…
There are no mental gymnastics, and unless you’ve been absent in the debate since it began in 2023, it’s been one conversation regarding the direction of the Democratic party, with effectively two camps.
The first camp, effectively taking the party line and acting as cheerleaders of the DNC, have taken a “No critisism of the Democratic Party is acceptable; voters need to move to the positions of the DNC” approach.
The second camp took a “The DNC needs to be better and acknowledge it’s shortcomings, and make changes when necessary. The DNC needs to align itself with DNC voters and the party base.”
The first camp, for the first 8 months of 2024, insisted we had to run Joe Biden. That there were no other possibilities, options, or potential outcomes. They defended the approach the DNC took to the primary process, which was by any measure, the least democratic primary they party had ever held.
The second camp raged at the preposterous farce which was the DNC primary. They pointed out that Bidens poll numbers were so bad he basically had no chance of winning. That by insisting on this losing strategy we were losing critical time.
Bans were made, here, regarding this debate. And the first camp was wrong. There was another way possible.
After the candidates were swapped the first camp further insured that people just needed to move to where the DNC was, after taking effectively a pro genocide, Republican lite campaign philosophy as an outcome of the convention.
The second camp pointed out that this would lose the DNC the election, that we needed our focus to be on moving the candidate to a more popular, more electable position.
The first camp won the argument and lost us all the war, because their fundamental belief in what is being argued and whom they are arguing with is wrong. The first camp is responsible for the millions of votes difference between Kamala and Biden, because they insisted on this losing strategy.
Makes sense; sow further division in the groups who don’t like Trump so there’s less opposition to him.
That division is much, much older. The beltway is full of people who benefit from corporations or come from wealthy families and are materially aligned against the working class, and their ideology reflects this. These people as a group stand to lose more from the democrats moving to the left and hurting the bourgeoisie than winning than staying in the middle and losing.
This is a common dynamic historically; liberals in power need the people to maintain power, but their interests aren’t aligned with the people, so they pass policies that marginalize their own base of support, and so the conservatives take power and then do counterrevolution.
If false dichotomy was a person you’d be it
if you want to keep losing elections, keep at it.
Maybe democrats want to lose. Why else would they not invite 3rd parties to participate of equal footing. Why would they say no to multiple chances at beating the republicans? Why would they say no to increased voter participation and the free votes that come along side that.
Where is the urgency during the election? Where is the urgency now? Do they not believe what they’ve been saying about the republicans this whole time?
3rd parties cannibalize votes from which ever majority party it aligns closest with. That’s the problem with our system. Your comment makes no sense I’m the context of current voting rules.
Ranked choice voting would help immensely and then your tongue in cheek rhetorical questions would make sense, but until then the answer is obvious. The Dems don’t want that because it takes votes from them.
This is the same as the Zelensky trap. They’re going to cut federal funding regardless. The just plan on getting you to bend the knee before hand.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
1st ammendment to the constitution since conservatives love to claim they support it
Bold of you to assume that the US is a country still under the rule.of law.
Nah I’m pretty sure the 1st amendment just says I can say the N word /s
Yeah but they’re gonna rewrite the constitution, it’s gonna be the best constitution the founding fathers will be jealous they didn’t come up with this thing it’s gonna be airtight and on the blockchain
Oh, we don’t use that outdated piece of paper any more, haven’t you heard?
Congress isn’t making a law. Instead, the President is committing treason while his party pretends not to notice and the other party flops around like a dead fish.
That’s not a problem if executive orders are treated as law; the first amendment doesn’t curtail the president’s power.
What’s an illegal protest? I thought first amendment speech covered that
Also, how can he expel a student from a school he doesn’t control? or does he mean expel students from the country?
Next week. New legislation, all protests are now illegal
Wait, are you joking or is that real?
Christ, you had to ask. We really do live in interesting time.
My apologies, its not real that i know of. But god damn it seems like the next step doesnt it?
Cheers mate
Since many answers aren’t actually answering the question…
My comment is largely wrong!! See the reply below
Most places require a permit to assemble en masse. There are “free speech zones” where you can create large gatherings without any kind of advance notice or permit or whatever. Most universities have a free speech zone towards the middle of their campuses. Cities will also often have at least one but somewhere that doesn’t inconvenience commerce, like a park or near city hall.Most mass assembly requires a permit and sometimes a fee, even in public places. Following this prevents arrest by “disturbing the peace” or other such laws, usually.How this squares with the first amendment is interpretation. Individual freedom of speech is protected except very specific public order and safety things, e.g. calling for violence. Coordinated, mass freedom of speech is perceived as a fast path to rioting.I’m not saying this is right, but this is my understanding of how things work. I’m not a lawyer or an expert in these matters. This is just what I learned from activist friends in my university time ages ago.As for expulsion, public universities are run by states. To my understand, Trump has no legal mechanism to do this. He’s just talking out of his ass or expects to bully public institutions into expelling students by threatening to withhold department of education funding… but he’s planning to kill that anyway, so 🤷♂️
I spent most of my 20s doing grassroots campaigning, with a large part of it being protest planning and organization. You generally do not need a permit to conduct protests on public property, even large ones, in the USA.
The exceptions are very specific; i.e. blocking roads may require a permit.
Ah, good to know! Thank you for correcting me. I’ll edit my other comment
Remember, he’s only got the intelligence of a kumquat. He doesn’t even understand that he’s too stupid to understand anything. He vomits whatever he thinks give his followers happy endings.
He doesn’t give a shit about the speech. It’s the schools and universities he wants to harm. Even if it’s just a matter of disrupting them through legal overwhelm.
This happened before: https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sophie_Scholl
a German student and anti-Nazi political activist, active within the White Rose non-violent resistance group in Nazi Germany. She was convicted of high treason after having been found distributing anti-war leaflets at the University of Munich(LMU) with her brother, Hans.
“Such a splendid sunny day, and I have to go. But how many have to die on the battlefield in these days, how many young, promising lives… What does my death matter if by our acts thousands are warned and alerted. Among the student body there will certainly be a revolt.”
She’s bae.
The amount of times I’ve heard salty right wing grifters complain about Orwellian censorship on literally everything. But I guess it’s just fine if cult leader Trump does it, because he stands for what’s right and sticks it to those progressive plebs, right?
He didn’t win by being consistent. Hypocrisy is WHY people voted for him. They thought he was the only one who would “do the hard things” by being cruel to the people who are hurting everyone. That’s the narrative at least, and while you can literally write libraries on the flaws, inconsistencies and logical discrepancies in Trump and the Republican narratives, the fact remains that most people are vulnerable to storylines.
Not moral flaws. Not character. Not record or experience. The only thing people largely, as a group, care about is JUST how someone makes them feel in that moment. And a lot of poorly educated, mentally unwell people saw and heard Trump lying to the people they believe were the cause of all our woes, and that’s why they voted for him.
If we ever want another democracy that works, we have to understand that our population is genetically and physically identical to the beings who were clubbing each other’s heads in during ten thousand years of ice age glaciers and primitive hardship. We survived those times by forming tight-knight groups and telling ourselves stories for how to survive. We’re doing the same things right now, but someone else is guiding those stories. Either we stop the storytellers or we make better stories that people will want to repeat. Those are our only options.
Will they deport Lady Liberty? 😂
No. In this image she’s making an approved gesture.
From a boat back to France.
Ah yes, that free speech that Musk is always taking about.
You’re free to say whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t hurt the president’s feelings.
Hey Muricans, this is what you wanted and voted for (or could’t be bother voting to prevent)… enjoy
or, hit the streets and remove the fascist gov you elected
Ill do whatever the fuck I want bitch, shut the fuck up and go suck Elons dick.
What does he think “illegal” means? Is he getting rid of the first amendment?
That word doesn’t mean anything to him, except as a tool to prosecute people he doesn’t like. Obviously laws and illegality don’t mean shit when it’s him breaking the law.
Pretty sure there is enough evidence for treason at this point, but Congress won’t act on it.
That word doesn’t mean anything to him
“Illegal” as in “illegal immigrants”. It’s a connotation word, it doesn’t mean anything on its own obviously.
He also thinks he can order a private school to expell students… he’s just not smart.
Even if it works… it would not label him as smart, just unreasonably powerful (money full)
But also that it’s DEI DEMOCRAT OVERREACH to have a black woman in an administrative role.
I think illigal means dissenting (or brown)…
In his mind (to clarify)
Blue states need to start up their own shadow government, fund their own shit.
Californian here.
We should stop paying federal taxes.
We have a ton of money, a ton of military installations, and 1 in 8 Americans IS a Californian. Washington and Oregon join us, and we’d be in even better shape. Canada can get in on the action too.
A felon rapist traitor and his traitor party is making our Constitution irrelevant. Time to start looking out for ourselves.
WA state here - it’s ridiculous that I have to subsidize chuds in Mississippi and Louisiana when they won’t even give their citizens human rights. they’re all about fiscal responsibility until it comes to paying their own fucking bills.
edit: love the chudvotes, do we have some cranky MS and LA types? pay your fucking bills jerkfaces. fuck, half your budgets come from federal funds we pour more into.
Federal taxes don’t actually work that way. The federal government prints its own money. All taxes effectively go into a giant shredder and are unrelated to spending.
You guys need to go hang with Hawaii. Alaska can come too.
I’m not sure that’s feasible, since the states don’t just sign a check to the Feds once a year, it’s paid via payroll taxes. To my knowledge, there is no kind of mechanism for entire states to collectively refuse payment.
Then they came from the students, and I watched my parents still beg for more fascism because they thought they were going to be billionaires any day now
Haven’t they been coming for the students already before trump got into office?
GUNS
Call the cops /$
