I’ve been trying to find a good Marxist instance, but Lemmygrad and Hexbear are widely hated. Why is that? Are there any good leftist instances?

  • davel@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Lemmygrad and Hexbear aren’t “leftist” in the confused sense that Americans usually mean “leftist.” They’re actually leftist in the original sense, meaning that they want to abolish private ownership of the means of production. To the extent they’re “widely hated,” it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives.

    • davel@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      More often than not, when Americans say leftist they really mean left-liberalism a la Bernie Sanders, which is really center-left at most, and not actually leftist in the original sense, a sense which Americans have forgotten thanks to two Red Scares and the first Cold War.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      That’s not the part people have an issue with, the part where their users deny genocides, call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis, end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks, that’s what people have an issue with.

      • Camarada Forte@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        their users deny genocides

        If you are referring to the Xinjiang issue, then it just reaffirms what @davel@lemmy.ml just said:

        it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives

        Because the “Uyghur genocide” in Xinjiang is another example of propaganda. Or do you really think the West cares about Muslims and want to protect their “freedom”?

        call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis

        I don’t see anyone in Lemmygrad calling other people “Nazis” because they disagree with someone in a discussion. I usually see them criticizing others as “liberals.” This is either a misrepresentation of leftists in general, very common among conservatives, or you are frequently being called a Nazi. I don’t know, maybe that’s on you? 🤔

        end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks

        That’s so specific you should give at least one example of this. We have very strict moderation against any bigotry, so I challenge you to link any “racist” attitude or comment you have seen in Lemmygrad. I will give you 24 hours, and if you don’t reply with an example, I will edit this comment saying you chickened out.

        EDIT: They chickened out, as expected.

      • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Wild how much footage is coming out of Gaza right now showing an actual ongoing genocide, yet Zionists and their water-carriers will harp on and on about how Israel is merely defending itself.

        Nothing of the sort from Xinjiang. At all.

        I’d like to see ONE verifiable image or video depicting this supposed Uyghur genocide we’re denying. ONE. Apparently it’s one of the worst human atrocities occuring right now. One of the worst in HISTORY.

        So… show me a single picture. Fetish porn doesn’t count. Where are the dead bodies? Where are these supposed mass graves?

        Love to break it to ya, they don’t fucking exist and they never did. You’ve been lied to.

        • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          The US state department lawyers and the British House of Lords have evidence. That’s why they’re pursuing convictions of the Chinese leaders involved. No, wait— sorry, I misremembered. They both concluded there is insufficient evidence.

        • socsa@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          So you agree that there is a strong argument for Russia seeking genocide in Ukraine as well, right?

          • Camarada Forte@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Israel has killed more civilians (mostly children and women) in a month of war than Russia has killed in almost two years. The Russians actually target almost exclusively military infrastructure, they have preserved electrical grids, water stations, communications infrastructure, etc… Not because they are “good guys”, obviously, but it’s a part of their strategy. But it shows genocide is not a part of this strategy.

              • Camarada Forte@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                The article was written by Timofei Sergeitsev, a Russian “philosopher” with no direct link to the government. The article in the website you linked was written in early April 2022, very early after the war, when no one knew what to expect. It was claimed it was “proof” the Russians was intending to genocide Ukrainians.

                More than a year later, have we seen anything like it? Have we seen active actions from the Russians to consistently destroy civilian buildings and systematically cause civilian casualties on purpose? I at least haven’t, unless we are talking about a completely different war which I’m not aware. I don’t excuse the Russians of anything, I’m sticking with the facts. The Russians have been very careful not to cause non-military casualties, which is extremely odd for a genocidal regime.

                So, in short, it’s your article written by a guy with no links to the government vs. what the actual war itself shows in practice. I prefer to see what practice shows us.

                • socsa@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Feels like ad hominem. The point is that you are unwilling to even engage with the idea that Russia seeks to eliminate Ukrainian identity, an idea which is reported by a number of primary Russian sources in a variety of media. Putin himself expresses frequent open skepticism of Ukrainian nationality. Not to even mention the internationally recognized mass deportation of children.

                  I won’t argue that Israel isn’t an apartheid state engaging in collective punishment. Meanwhile you will turn yourself in circles to defend Russian aggression, and for the life of me I can figure out what that has to do with liberating workers. It just feels less like intellectual honesty and more like campism. But then somehow I’m the brainwashed goon for actually attempting to maintain something resembling ideological consistency.

                  • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    The point is that you are unwilling to even engage with the idea that Russia seeks to eliminate Ukrainian identity

                    Is that like a litmus test? Next time I’m ordering pizza I’ll ask the restaurant if they are willing to engage with the idea that Russia seeks to eliminate Ukrainian identity.

                    Literally no idea why you brought that up again lol

                  • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    unwilling to even engage with the idea that Russia seeks to eliminate Ukrainian identity

                    Camarada Forte did engage with this argument. The person who created this supposed dossier dictating Russia’s desire to destroy the Ukrainian identity has no direct link to the Russian government.

                    You need evidence we can engage with. We cannot meaningfully engage with empty platitudes.

                    Meanwhile you will turn yourself in circles to defend Russian aggression

                    Do you know what was going on in eastern Ukraine, beginning in 2014? Pretty similar to what’s going on in Gaza right now. Hint: it was not Russian artillery leveling homes, schools, and hospitals.

                    But then somehow I’m the brainwashed goon for actually attempting to maintain something resembling ideological consistency.

                    Awfully defensive there, bud. Speaking of ad hominem. 🙄

      • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        That’s a liberal with no framework. No one denies genocides (pro-tip just because the western media says it’s a genocide doesn’t make it a genocide.) Being so anti-racist you are the real racist is the Liberal Democratic party who elected a hard-core segregationist as president, not a Marxist Leninist. No one except people like you give a fuck about personal attacks. lol.

      • davel@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        The “Uyghur genocide” is bullshit Atlanticist propaganda, and English-language Wikipedia is basically NATOpedia in its slant on the topic, so yes we will deny it. It’s a product of the new Cold War propaganda campaign against China.

        • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          Atlanticist crackers are exactly why I’m a third-worldist; I genuinely care more about my community’s diaspora than I’d ever care about these genocidal neocolonist crackers