Specifically Marilyn Manson and Kanye West. Am I overthinking this?
I listen to Die Antwoord still and read the poetry of Anne Sexton. The former is because I think some of the accusations against them are exaggerated, and part of their whole act IS being jerks. The latter is because what she did was clearly in the throes of her severe bipolar disorder which was long before they had any good medications.
Okay Die Antwood is interesting to me. I listen to a lot of obscure indie bands from South Africa. I have a few South African compilation CD’s. One track on one of those CD’s was Be Kind to Animals by Max Normal. I had some coworker reccommend Die Antwood because I said I liked South African music. I was reading about Die Antwood only to realize they’re the same artist. I couldn’t believe some obscure track on some 2001 compilation CD turned out to be by one of the biggest South African artists. Yeah the dude is a real asshole from what I’ve read.
Apparently South Africans are NOT fans of the band despite their success. I think what Tokkie claims about them sounds made up, apparently he’s an addict and trying to extort them is their take on it. It just doesn’t sound truthful at all.
Yeah I can’t imagine South Africans appreciating Ninja saying racism is a thing of the past or whatever he said. What was Tokkie claiming exactly? I remember someone claiming they were harassed by Ninja, is that what you’re referencing? I remember reading about it it but don’t remember the exact specifics. Disclaimer, I am not South African so I don’t claim to speak for them.
Tokkie claims he was sexually and physically abused by them and made into a slave. None of the sources seem very well sourced, it’s just based on a video he made, and they state that he’s an addict and trying to extort them for drug money. Capetown child welfare workers went to their house to see if their daughter Sixteen is ok, and apparently had no problems with them. I take abuse seriously but what he’s saying seems super farfetched and made up. I don’t think they’re great people exactly, but their characters are obviously an act and they’re middle aged parents under it all.
What’s wrong with Marilyn Manson that wasn’t 20 years ago?
If they get even a cent from you, then you are funding their crap. Also whatever you don’t like about them will certainly be part of their art. If that doesn’t bother you, then sure, enjoy what you want.
In my mind, as long as you’re not listening to a horrific song (like Kanye’s Heil Hitler), and as long as they’re not seeing a penny from you listening to them, then I don’t think it’s a huge issue. You’re getting something from them while screwing them out of some money.
like Kanye’s Heil Hitler
Wait, what??? I thought this was a joke, so I just looked it up. I have no words…
You and me both.
The most politically incorrect truth is this: People are not good or bad, individual people do a variety of good and bad things. Mister Rogers told his gay friend to stay in the closet and marry a woman. Hitler banned animal cruelty. We don’t like to talk about these things, but it’s a true principle and a useful one to live by.
It’s not politically incorrect at all. ‘Good’ and ‘bad’ are just too simplistic ways to interpret our complex world. It’s idealistic to try and put people in such simple categories, and it leads to a delutional worldview.
The only ‘politically incorrect’ part is that some people might jump down your throat for pointing out things about Hitler which weren’t terrible, because unfortunately neo-Nazis abuse this rhetoric as a wolfwhistle or for whitewashing. But as long as you’re clearly not doing that, there’s nothing politically incorrect with saying Hitler drank water.
Of course, just don’t give them money. Unless you’re listening to the musical equivalent of “The Eternal Jew”/“American Sniper”, in which the content was not only made by hateful, possibly hellbound people but is also actively trying to morph your ideology to be more like theirs, what’s the danger?
That’s how I view it too. If you can consume something without financing further harm then the author doesn’t matter. Already own a Niel Gaiman book? Feel free to keep reading it. Pirated some metal music from a band that turned out to be neo-nazis? Go for it. Want to read Lovecraft? He’s long dead and his estate doesn’t seem to be supporting racism, so buy as much as you want. Want to check out Mein Kampf from the library? I will have questions when you return it, but you aren’t hurting anyone by reading it. Just understand the mindset that made them bad people and don’t let them sway your outlook to match.
My mom got me a copy of Mein Kampf when I was little (I asked, I was curious about what this Hitler guy used to yap about) and she never even questioned it, lol. She really had faith in little ol’ me. 😅
I’ve never felt guilty for consuming media of people who have done bad things; it’s not that it’s not important to have integrity, I just assume everyone I could consume media from has and does, and the difference is that I’ll either never know, or don’t know yet.
We can’t just throw away historical and culturally significant works because the creator(s) are terrible, in part because broken, complicated, terrible people make these works because that’s where the creative energy is.
I don’t think so. You’re always going to remember. You can be good at pushing it down. But it’s always going to be in the back of your mind. Just depends how skilled you are at ignoring that part of your mind really.
Is Marilyn Manson a dick? I thought they were just weird.
He groomed and allegedly raped an 18 year old.
Ok, fuck him.
Dont support them by buying their stuff. Just pirate their music. For me personally, i dont follow artist in anyway shape or form. I have bigger problem to worry about. I just listen to songs i like and go on with my day.
Yes. It’s called seperating the artist from the art.
I’m sorry I should read more English literature, but I’m a bit in a hurry right now.
- You shouldn’t feel guilty if you haven’t given them a cent since they’ve been exposed as Nazis (and as a rapist in Monson’s case), and if you haven’t listened to any new release, i.e. if you don’t contribute to their careers now. You may have done this in the past, even by normalizing them, but that’s all you can do right now, and at the same time the bare minimum.
- Should you feel allowed to get emotional on a Nazi’s music? Cold rationality may make us stray away from humanity when we touch this topic, honestly; I’m all for rationally discussing Nazism, but ambivalent people really need to understand that a Nazi is de facto a monster first, and that they’d be so much more useful dead than alive that it outweighs the usual considerations on their dignity as a human being. Now, yes, if it helped you keep pushing back then, if you don’t fund their careers and if you don’t listen to new releases.
- As a reminder, you may self-host a private tracker on an old computer that won’t boot Windows 10 for you and your friends, complimented by a Jellyseerr/Sonarr/Readarr setup. Anyone with a bit on experience in piracy has a few high-quality discographies, so maybe one of your friends has downloaded their discographies on TPB back when they were “controversial”.
- As a semi-related reminder, the IRC protocol is designed for asking questions. Linux distributions (and other standard operating systems) have the best compatibility; interestingly enough the protocol has kept one third of its user base since its peak, and the Undertale’s Undernet is actually the name of one of its oldest servers. You’re probably gonna need help with your first server so feel free to come around and ask questions.
I always assume most popular artists in general are horrible people, so yeah…
Well there is enjoying an artists music and there is supporting an artist and defending them. But you have to decide when to cut off an, “abusive relationship”. I can hold a person and artist in separate spaces. A love a lot of music, literature, art that was created by terrible people but try and avoid giving those people my attention and money. Other people have said that while an artist creates, its not their art, it’s ours. Perfect example is Harry Potter books. I would say that people’s experience and enjoyment of the books is not JK. Now the tough decision comes when you want something created by an artist/company and you have to support them for your own enjoyment. That is the line we all consider. Just trust yourself to find it. Nothing is truly just in this world but we shouldn’t stop trying.
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