I have a high IQ as well as ADHD and Autism.
Out of context, scoring as high as I did really meant next to nothing. In the context of the diagnoses I received later in life, definitely made sense, and helped color a picture painted in two solid days with a psychologist.
Somehow, I think it’s important that the IQ test I took was not called an IQ test to me until after. Like, I knew I was in for tests, but more broadly told what things were about.
As a student, I had a science teacher who had been teaching many years, tell my mother he had never seen a student think in the manner I did. I was doing exceptionally well in class, but did not exceed in the fashion that would get me into an ivy league school, which at the time was supposed to be a goal. My father graduated MIT.
There are times when it’s great. When I can focus on something, I can learn a lot and get very good at it. However, I spent decades with two obstacles I could never get myself past: the inability to keep that focus or control it, and the inability to even understand other people enough to try to get along with them long-term.
The result is I am just now, at 41, starting to figure out what I want to do with my life after way too long in a profession I should never have entered, and burned out of twice. And by burn out I do not mean tired and sad, I mean hospitalization.
In summary, it can be pretty great, but in my case it’s fraught with difficulty as well.
Thanks for your response.
It’s interesting to see your story in relation to other stories I’ve heard or people I’ve met.
Before I describe them, it’s important to say that you don’t strike me as unkind. I wouldn’t want you to compare yourself to the people I’ll mention and conclude that you’re somehow bad. I’m taking the time to say this because I don’t know if the difficulties you’ve mentioned are a sore spot.
Alright. The people I’ve met. I’ve met people whose identity was tied to their IQ and it became painful for me to wonder what I meant to them. For sure I was not close to their IQ; they needed to take multiple tests because they were off the charts. But I always wondered if they liked me as a person, based on my values and how I did things.
I’ve also met very relaxed and kind people who went on to study at the schools that were supposed to be a goal, people who made me realize it’s possible to be wicked smart and simultaneously kind.
When you mention that it was important that you weren’t told that the test you took was an IQ test, I think about teenage me. Back then, I learned that people could judge me based on my IQ. I made the mistake of reading white supremacist bigotry, and read that they evaluated whether people were worthy of living based on things like IQ. I knew the whole white supremacy discourse was pseudoscience and bigotry, but I was scared of bigots in power evaluating my existence. I became terrified. I became very distrustful of people who I should’ve trusted, wonderful people who would’ve never had such narrow and mistaken views. That has changed, now that I have a clearer sense of self and more perspective. But I can’t help but wonder what would’ve happened if I wouldn’t have mistrusted wonderful people. I guess the discourse around IQ can really change the way you look at the world and what you do.
Is it too nosy to ask a couple of follow up questions? If not, here they are: you mentioned ADHD and the obstacle you could never get yourself past, the inability to keep your focus and control it. Is the diagnosis recent? Could medication help? Could any treatment help with the ADHD? As to difficulties understanding other people, do you know about relational frame theory, the self component of ACT, and the PEAK and AIM programs?
As far as medication, I have not decided yet. This is all recent, within the last year. Therapy has been helping a lot for my current state, but ADHD isn’t the focus. Recovering from burnout is.
I haven’t looked into anything you’ve mentioned.
I have been described as, and willing describe myself as, a good person with a capacity for kindness. I am not nice in much of what that means.
I think my political stances sometimes highlight that. I will willingly punch nazis given the chance. No, that’s not hyperbole. I have no tolerance for bigotry. I lost a good friend who became a cop, and then said some questionable but not outright hateful things in the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder.
A flawed but not altogether useless analogy is I am not the guy who waves someone on at a stop sign when it is that person who is supposed to yield. I have no patience for it, nor do I have patience for it happening the other way around.
When I recognized that a now good friend wasn’t so harsh to me out of spite or hate but out of personal struggle, I wanted to know more, and now we not only became good friends, but we are to each other among the very few people we talk openly with about therapy and how it’s really going. We both understand and respect the need to break down the stigma of seeking help with mental health. We had both peered into the void.
But in public, I wind up ignoring a lot of people simply from wearing headphones and wanting nothing to do with any of it.
“How does this (dress, shirt, whatever) look on me?” My wife gets the truth, like it or not.
I could go on, and am willing to try to answer any questions.
It’s tough having a high IQ. Most people don’t understand the world and the flaws of humans, at least at the level I do. As such, I find it hard to connect to other people. Most people are morons. I feel deep sorrow in knowing the direction the world is going and that the inhabitants of the world are mostly idiots.
…
Why do so many people (in this thread) unironically feel this way? “Intelligence” is a socially constructed and often useless idea that includes and excludes many things seemingly at random. For example, chess is often thought of as something that’s very intelligent, but skill at chess is (just like nearly anything else) based on practice & experience. Just because you’re good at chess and did well in school doesn’t mean that you alone can understand the problems in the world at a deeper level than an average Jo.
Everyone should read “What Is Intelligence, Anyway?”, a short excerpt from Isaac Asimov.
I’ll paste the part I think is most important, but the whole thing is worth reading:
Well, then, suppose my auto-repair man devised questions for an intelligence test. Or suppose a carpenter did, or a farmer, or, indeed, almost anyone but an academician. By every one of those tests, I’d prove myself a moron, and I’d be a moron, too. In a world where I could not use my academic training and my verbal talents but had to do something intricate or hard, working with my hands, I would do poorly. My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in and of the fact that a small subsection of that society has managed to foist itself on the rest as an arbiter of such matters.
It’s a mixed bag.
Growing up was made difficult because school is so slow that I’d rather be getting into trouble than sitting in class. By the start of middle school I’d already read the entire high school honors reading list, I had to walk to the high school from my middle school in 7th grade to take math classes. I rarely had regular school work in high school, nearly all of my academic teachers designed a different curriculum for me, which was nice but probably mostly to keep me from acting up in class. I never studied or did a shred of homework, but got good grades.
Social interactions were tough, I’m not much of an empath, not that I don’t experience empathy but emotions just aren’t intuitive, actually they often are the opposite of what you’d expect to be helpful, especially among young people. I had to concentrate to read people’s faces and mannerisms to understand the emotional and social subtexts of most interactions. I self medicated with alcohol a lot in high school.
All of my academic classes in high school were honors, and my final 2 years were all AP, while lettering in 3 varsity sports (4 total, but you can only play 3 each academic year). It wasn’t until my second year in uni that I ran into a class for which I actually had to study (nuclear chemistry), and boy was that an awful surprise. A handful of classes were like this for me, most I just showed up 3 times and got a good grade: the first day of class so I wouldn’t get dropped, the midterm, and the final.
I read quickly, think systematically, and information just sticks in my head. It was very difficult to understand why this wasn’t how most people were. Everything I do I analyze for improvement, and remember to do it better the next time. My wife calls me a skill collector because people seem to think I’m super good at everything, but to me it’s just logical that if you’re going to take time do something you might as well do it as well as possible.
After uni things started getting easier. Being forced to closely analyze social interactions and systematically give the “right” reactions is extremely useful in professional life. I wear this mask in all my interactions with all but my closest friends. It’s a bit psychopathic, but I don’t do it to anyone’s detriment, it’s mostly to get along and fit in.
I’ve self selected for highly intelligent friends, and I’m exhilarated to meet new people who can communicate with the kind of bandwidth that our brains run at, if that makes sense. I’m still close with most of my friends from high school, who have had varying levels of success, but I still have to be guarded when it comes to activities or conversation to make sure I don’t stick out too much.
In general I have a very pessimistic view of people and the world. The average person isn’t very sharp, and half of all people are dumber than that. However many smart people do evil things, most of the time for no reason at all. It’s exhausting to keep up with it all, so I just focus on my path and my family, and do what I can to directly improve my community.
It would be nice to fit in a little easier, but I wouldn’t trade my experience for anything else.
This is relatable.
The section about pessimism is relatable. I spent a few months in my teen years in a chatroom with the topic of being outcasts in some way or another, before realizing it was a self-prophecising kind of toxic the same way that incel culture is, but there were some people ranting about how stupid people are and woe is me, I’m Cassandra! And my impression at the time was thinking they’re probably an egotistical prick who thinks they’re better than everyone else. But on the other hand, it is frustrating to see, less how ‘dumb’ people are but how ignorant people are. It’s hard not to get a bit of ego at times. And this isn’t about IQ for the most part, these issues are often caused or compounded by other problems with education, social values, propaganda/indoctrination and the lot. I guess I feel the activist frustrated enough to yell “why don’t you care?” when obviously, rationally it’s more complex than that.
This is a big issue in tech communities as it becomes more accessible, people are entering who aren’t used to the DIY culture, who don’t understand unsaid (or said) rules like asking smart questions to not waste everyone’s time. The world is at your fingertips! Fucking put that question in a search engine first before you waste my time, my life has value goddammit! When I occasionally whine about reddit culture, that’s a part of it. People who are curious (and that’s perfect!) but don’t realize they’re asking questions they can learn the answer to themselves. It’s like if we’re talking about cooking and someone jumps in to ask “what is a herb?”, it’s a valid question, an important question, but for fucks sake you can learn that without asking us all! Or at least go to ELI5 & NoStupidQuestions where those questions are appropriate.
Keep in mind, that rant is specific to online questions, where you have the resources you need. It’s more acceptable in a conversation, and I certainly don’t want anyone to feel uncomfortable learning things.
Honestly, a community learning how to effectively direct people to an FAQ to onboard uninformed newcomers on answers and community expectations is the difference between a welcoming community and burned-out babysitters becoming toxic.
I have a high IQ and diagnosed as “gifted” by psy at nearly 40.
I won’t argue about IQ and Giftedness having scientific base or not. All I can do is a professional clinical psy told me I am gifted. And what I’ll say is just my way of thinking.
I have a systemic brain. I have very poor memory concerning names, date, etc… but I can remember complex system (basically, what cause create which consequence) really easily. I also understand problem, and find solutions much faster than most of peoples, I have strong Intuition of things, but I have difficulties explaining how I’ve found the solution. Scientists think it may be related to Myelin. That stuff increase connection speed between neurons, so it makes you think “faster”, but sometime faster than you conscience.
I also wants to give meaning to anything. If I take a nap and hear the wind in the trees, I immediately imagine air molecules traveling and hitting leaves, sound wave propagating and hitting my ears. Wind also blowing the small layer of hotter air near my skin, explaining why it feel cold, etc…
I see object through their functioning, not their usefulness. When I see any new machine, I don’t really care what it does, but more how it does it.
I’m constantly flooded by information, and I’m constantly analyzing everything. Being in a crowed area is exhausting for me, because there are too many stimulus. I’m not going to faint or something, but I think being in a crowd for me is like being in a kindergarten class full of screaming children.
I don’t talk a lot because I’m easily bored by small-talks. I don’t see the point of speaking about what I’ve done this week end, or the weather, or anything. I prefer staying in my own bubble speaking to myself.
I don’t feel part of this world, I more feel like an observer watching some weird TV show. I don’t understand most of human reaction.
If you are French speaking, I strongly encourage you to read the comics Comme oiseau dans bocal. It’s based on serious research and is a very good popular science story about IQ, giftedness, etc…
Just wanted to say wow, so much of that sounds familiar!
thanks :)
Since you’ve been to a psychologist for your assessment (is that what you mean by “psy”?) have you asked or considered the possibility of neurodivergence? I have suspected autism in myself for a while, and I resonate with much of what you said in regards to stimulus overwhelm, staying in your bubble, disdain for small talk etc. That’s pretty common in many autistic people.
Yeah, I and some other psychologists had suspected high level autism, like Asperger, but it doesn’t seems to be this. I have a mix of social anxiety linked to my childhood (also called over-adaptation), probably neurodivergence like giftedness, and Endogenous depression. Fuck my brain :D. The good side is that I’m extremely resilient to stress, pressure, or emergency situations.
My last psy (who is excellent) told me that “Autistic people are always autistic”. It’s really a missing social-related circuits in their brain. On my side, I’m “autistic like” most of the time, but I manage to build close relationship with good friends. So I have this “social circuit”, but it switch on only when I feel really secure.
It feel really strange to re-analyse all my life and childhood with this new perspective.
This mirrors my experience.
I was determined to have an IQ of 139 at age eight by a school psychologist. I was educated in a special program, attended an Ivy League university in the US, finished graduate school in the top 1% of my class, and work a well compensated job I dislike and will leave shortly.
To answer the main question, I find it isolating and a bit scary right now, but also stress-relieving.
I cannot connect with the average person though I really like some for their kindness. This is because I have a different lived experience. I consume different media. I don’t have their problems (money, vices, romantic instability, political agitation). I dislike how populism and hatred are rising, and am concerned that we are ignoring real issues (climate change, deficit spending, pollution) for fake ones (immigrants, “woke” culture, crime). At the same time, I wealthy by any objective standard, don’t have to work, and follow most medical guidelines (little exercise due to work schedule) so weigh an appropriate amount and am in good health.
I will acquire the book you recommend. My read French is decent. I have thought little about my IQ and perhaps should.
Thanks for sharing.
I’ve never had serious IQ test. I scored between 130 and 160 on some online tests, where my friends were around 100/110. My psy told me I could pass a real test if I want, but added it would be a waste of time (and money) regarding all the other elements she detect in me.
I always was the smart kid at school, but In all their wisdom, some teachers thought it would be a good idea to put me with low level students to pull them up. I ended up with bunch of retard that bullied me for not being stupid enough. Hard time, but now I have a good job in scientific domain which pay well, a nice house and a few motorbike in my garage. In a way, I got my revenge.
I feel like you regarding populism and hatred. I don’t understand how people could be so easily manipulated. I stop watching TV and mainstream media anyway. I’m not really aware of what happen in the world, but I feel better this way. I prefer travelling and really see how beautiful the world is than watching news repeating how doomed we are.
IQ tests are largely worthless, so I wouldn’t take one formally.
Sorry about your school experience. Being placed in a gifted program allowed me to make friends with similar people.
I am envious of your career in the sciences. I foolishly pursued business, and while it has been financially rewarding, I am left with a sense of emptiness.
My job and residence in Florida require me to follow the news to avoid the nonsense inflicted by populist leaders, but I spend my free time in nature or traveling like you.
It is nice to connect to someone online with a similar experience.
Yes, it’s nice to have this kind of discussion.
I’m horrible at business and economy. Too many humans in the loop, I don’t understand the logic behind. And it really gives me the impression of fooling peoples. I tried to do consulting in freelance, but was really not my cup of tea. I quickly came back to employee. I’m really efficient in my job, so it gave me spare time to work on other topics. And as my company encourage innovation, It’s a win-win relation. I have a lot of autonomy and have regular bonus for IP and patent I fill. I know it’s penuts regarding money they do on my back, but I can work on things I like.
I never went to Florida. I visit West coast twice (Seattle, LA, and San Francisco for job). US is so different than Europe. I felt like in amusement park, everything is so big, so clean (and a bit so fake 😂).
It’s not the first time I heard about gifted program. Is it something common in US ? How does it works ? Is it a separate private school, or just a special class in classic school ?
Business is morally dubious and absolute truth does not exist which is frustrating, but I lack the patience for bench research though recognize its much greater value. We are all exploited at work, but at least you have decent hours, labor protections, and I hope societal value.
Florida is a state of extremes. I love the warm, wet climate and the food/smells it produces, but it’s even more superficial and transitory than the West Coast you know.
I am writing this from onboard a flight Europe. I appreciate your social cohesion (yes, even in the France of greves et manifestations), food quality, public transit, and historic city centers. I know France quite well and while I love Normandy and Paris, the weather and family draw me to PACA and Aquitaine. Since I debate retiring to France, how do you find life there compared to what you have witnessed of the United States?
Public schools are locally managed and every school board is different, but gifted programs are common in Canada and the US. Children are screened early, tested, and put in dedicated classes. I was moved to a different school that had a segregated group of classrooms at age eight. My children’s school has gifted classes so they could stay starting at seven. Since you are past this age, what leads you to such an interest if you don’t mind me asking?
You don’t feel smart, but everyone else appears extremely dumb
Lonely isn’t the right word, because I’m not upset about not having a large group of people I consider myself close to. It’s somewhat disappointing that I can’t deeply relate to more people, though. I’d like to meet more likeminded folks, but I’m also less and less willing to tolerate draining relationships as I get older. Being particular about where you invest your time and energy tends to be socially limiting.
I think it would be hard to isolate exactly how much of our daily lives we experience as a direct consequence of our IQ and how much is a consequence of other things such as personality, emotional predisposition, environment, and luck.
My IQ is pretty average (around 115 I think? I tested ages ago and I can’t even say the test was reliable). Some people insist I must be somewhat higher than that but I don’t know. I feel dumber every day.
My father though, he does have a higher IQ (I think 135 iirc) and it’s obvious to anyone that he’s a brains guy. Always top student in his youth and later a decent researcher, engineer and programmer. And yet he still makes dumb mistakes like everyone else, and his temper and personality will often turn a mediocre day into a bad one. He has a tendency to overcomplicate things unnecessarily, and sets high standards for others around him- you’d think being smarter would mean he wouldn’t do this, but as I said, intelligence doesn’t work isolated. I remember asking him how it feels like being smarter than most of his peers and his answer is always “bah!”.
So I don’t know if this answers your question, but there’s my two cents for you.
So I don’t know if this answers your question, but there’s my two cents for you.
It does! This is precisely the kind of stuff that I’m interested in! I agree with you, in that it’s possible to think wrong thoughts even with a higher IQ. I see IQ as the speed of thought, and you can very quickly arrive at wrong conclusions. Similarly, if there’s a thought that your skill tree hasn’t unlocked, then you’re left with thoughts that are maybe not ideal for a particular situation, thoughts that could make someone “overcomplicate things unnecessarily” or “make dumb mistakes”, as your dad or anyone on planet Earth would.
I think it’s especially hard to isolate IQ when there are many thoughts or behaviors that we don’t typically associate with high IQ. “Ah yes, the violin is a sensible instrument for a learned man” or whatever people may think. That’s partly why I asked my question. If someone leads a life not typically associated with a high IQ and yet have a high enough IQ that manifested in their life, how did that look like? Of course, I’m not looking for wild stories. I’m looking for genuine stories, and I’m glad that I got an interesting answers like yours!
115 is not “average” lmao
It’s within a standard deviation, it’s not like it’s getting him into Mensa.
It’s very tiring having to start off every conversation by letting people know that I’m more intelligent than them, but it is necessary.
Skimming through this post, people actually believe in IQ?
IQ is not a good measurement of intelligence. It is at best one single measurement of pattern recognition, and it is not set in stone either, as you can get better or worse at it.
There’s multiple types of intelligence it doesn’t measure and honestly, I don’t believe anyone should take it serious.
If you believe psychology and IQ are nonsense, here’s a comment I copied over from another thread:
IQ means intelligence quotient. A bunch of people take a test and they’re compared to each other. Your result is your intelligence quotient.
Its origins were noble, because it was designed to identify students who needed extra help in school. The creator of the test knew that people could change their results with good instruction.
However, that noble origin story was besmirched by what happened later. Eventually, IQ tests were used as a way to classify people in more brutal and rigid ways. The USA military used it as a cutoff for aspiring cadets. USA colleges use tests that effectively are IQ tests to let people in or not. The worst part is that bigots around the world injected pseudoscience into IQ and used it to decide who they think are worthy of life and who aren’t. It’s as awful as it sounds.
You may notice that helping struggling students sounds wonderful, and you may think that we should go back to that.
However, some people are deeply marked by the dark history of IQ. They have developed beliefs that protect them from the dangers of bigotry and IQ reductionism. They believe that tests aren’t useful at all to tell us something about anything. They believe IQ tests should be banished and never used.
Other people believe IQ tests are a snapshot of how a person answered the questions to a test in a given day. Take the same test days, months, or years after a great education, and the result will be higher. Additionally, these people notice that, in research, IQ scores are robustly associated with other things, such as quality of relationships, happiness, income, and other measures. They contend that learning about the world, about ourselves, and how to think critically and solve problems has massive domino effects in peoples’ lives. Once again, these people believe that a test result one day doesn’t doom you for life and doesn’t define you. A bad test result shows the gap that a good education would fill. These people know that a good education makes the mind curious, nimble, and open.
The details of my life are quite inconsequential, but since you asked…
Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we’d make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it’s breathtaking, I suggest you try it.
Very depressing. We’re social animals, and being highly literate and informed while also socially apt, you really realize just how far apart you are from others, which is alienating, frustrating, and tiresome.
My IQ was tested several times back in school and I usually clocked in at 148 or 149. That said I don’t think IQ tests are very useful. They also test for very spefic types of thinking. Those traits that people considered smart have. It’s kind of circular.
I think it’s like a physical fitness test that just measures bicep thickness. It tells you something but not as much as it claims.
I’m very good a understanding systems and understanding how changes effect them. I also pick up concepts very easy but struggle with remembering the details.
Presumably that’s because I learned it quickly and didn’t have the repetition to cement the details. Because I know the concept I’m board trying to memorize the details.
I know what J K reproduction types are but don’t remember which is which. Same with baryonic particles I can’t remember if they are half integer spin or not and or if they obey the Pauli exclusion principle. But I understand what those concepts are.
I’m ok with people and general social interaction but I don’t read people well and stick to the social rules for a situation. I’ve totally misread interactions more than most people but usually keep it civil.
I do a lot of cooking and am very good at getting the effect I want. I know what protiens and starches do at various temps and how to calculate the right amounts of salt, acid, and sugar. I’m not good at winging it or being creative with flavors.
Thanks for asking this question. I have enjoyed reading the answers people gave you.
I’m asking this partly because I saw someone else asking the same question but about low IQ.
