I’ve been seeing this more and more in comments, and it’s got me wondering just how big this issue really is. A lot of people feel trapped in apps like Discord, WhatsApp, and Instagram, but can’t get their friends to leave.
It’s really annoying when you suggest trying something new, whether it’s a different app or just not using these platforms so much but sometimes it can feel like no one wants to go first.
So I’m curious, what apps do you feel most trapped in? And have you tried convincing your friends to leave them? What happened? Is it an issue for you, or are you just going along with the flow?
Looking forward to hearing if this is as common as it feels!
“privacy? Yeah whatever, they just use it to catch bad people right? I have nothing to hide. I don’t have the time to learn all this VPN stuff. Don’t forget to like my posts!”
It’s Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp for me. I ditched the Facebook app a long time ago, but Messenger and Whatsapp remain on my device because no one wants to leave them. I try to keep my chats there as superficial as possible.
Also, this is my first comment ever on Lemmy, so hi everyone!
Welcome to lemmy!
It’s because our marketing sucks. People don’t care about their privacy, they like what is cool. So what does that mean? It mean we gotta make using open source app so cool that people can’t help but join because all the cool kids are here. You feel me? Preaching alone is not enough although it will benefit all of us
People don’t typically like change. It has to feel like it’s their decision to drive them there.
People will still use discord even if it got entirely banned, there just isn’t a good alternative now that is clear
Not federated but a pretty good alternative coming up with Revolt - still has a good way to go though.
Revolt would be good, but they lack screen share, that really was the only reason why we didn’t keep using it
they lack screen share
While they do lack screen share, it is in active development. See https://github.com/revoltchat/backend/issues/313 Last work on that issue happened 4 days ago. I am not a dev of revolt.
Interesting.
What’s the catch? Is it all self hosted? If not, where’s the hosting cash coming from?
I can’t say for sure, but see this answer from 2022: https://github.com/orgs/revoltchat/discussions/309?utm_source=chatgpt.com#discussioncomment-2232628
currently we are running on donations which we have plenty of
Lol, what because you tried Matrix and it SUCKS on both client and server?
XMPP can have a whole ass facebook app built inside it called Movim and it can be accessed from any “homeserver”. It can be far more than Discord will ever want to be, if the cats can be herded
If you don’t use Matrix well I guess bc it’s ubiquitous among squishy Linux and leftist communities for some godawful reason despite being Israeli-developed, US state dept funded, and idiot-maintained. They even have a slot for it on these lemmy accounts
You talk like a prick
Discord for me. A bunch of my family and friends are avid gamers. Discord is the universal standard app they all use for general communication.
Not only do they use it for all their gaming related stuff, they have additional servers and channels for just chilling, chatting, off topic stuff, memes, politics, etc etc.
It’s the network effect. Even if there was an open source app that perfectly replicated all the functionality of Discord and was just as simple to install and run as Discord, most of them still wouldn’t switch to it, because all of their friends and family are still on Discord.
So they would have to have two completely separate apps with totally separate social groups to maintain, and nobody but hardcore advocates for FOSS and privacy are willing to do that.
Sure, I have Discord, Matrix, IRC, Signal, XMPP clients, and a Private Mumble server, all on my systems, but I’m hardcore about FOSS. None of my friends and family are willing to do that. It took all my energy to convince two of my most techie friends just to get Signal on their phones. And only One has been willing to install a Matrix client to chat just with me.
Asking people to leave things means they’re losing a line of communication to friends, family, and interest groups who still use those things. It’s probably more productive to ask people to add the services you prefer rather than leave the ones they’re used to.
I’ve encountered some resistance from Americans who use iPhones and hate the idea of adding a third-party messaging app. None of them seem very interested in justifying that position.
Probably the idea of “all my other friends are on the mainstream platform so why would i move to another platform specifically for you?”
I ditched meta platforms entirely for signal in 2019, lets say I dont have many close friends anymore haha, my social life is kaput, even my work groupchat is on facebook
SMS
Nobody wants to use a messaging app at all. At this point I’d rather be stuck on WhatsApp. But its all family. Big family and try to get them to agree on anything is like pulling teeth.
I even sent everybody a “contact card” I made with my links to signal, simplex, and even whatsapp (figuring that’s the path of least resistance) saying I’d prefer to communicate on any of those apps. ZERO people changed nor did they even ask about it, options, or my reasoning.
It’s network effects. People have other friends on the network who have their own friends on the network, and so on. Leaving the network means convincing a critical mass of your network to leave along with you.
And it would be easier with good bridges, but of course the big platforms like Twitter, Facebook, etc., refuse to bridge in or out with anything.
You can scrape public Facebook feeds, using paid services, but AFAICT you need a friend on the inside to publish your stuff into Facebook.
I guess that’s one reason I shouldn’t complain about Bluesky - They support Bridgy.
Are there even public feeds anymore? Anytime I’ve gone to Facebook since deleting it wants me to login first, no matter what the link was to
In other words, you say that we should just give up.
I’m simply explaining why it’s difficult for people to move from existing networks.
Because their other friends are on them, and the celebrities they follow.
Comfort and scared of change. The dopamine these sites give you is close to sex for some people as weird as it sounds. So if you tell them to stop using Instagram, they can’t process that and simply say no.
This is just part of human nature. Some of us are able to say “hey this website is run by horrible people and I refuse to support it.” We leave and find other options and help them grow. We are in the minority.
Most people simply do not want to try something everyone else doesn’t use cause they don’t want to seem weird. Stupid societal norms.
Threaten them with having to communicate with you using email - they’ll install Signal 😂
Because people keep pushing for them to completely leave a platform.
Instead try to get them to dual-use platforms.
One of the big problems nowadays is proprietary protocols. Back in the day, you could have a single client that could talk to different networks. Today you have to run a bunch of separate apps, and what’s worse is that a lot of them are built with stuff like Electron that’s resource hungry.
Even the FOSS apps don’t all get along.
Conversations is great for XMPP, and it can act as a UnifiedPush pusher, but AFAICT it doesn’t support other protocols and it doesn’t act as a UnifiedPush subscriber.
So running 2 chat protocols, one being the well-support app Conversations on the well-supported protocol XMPP, means 2 push setups and 2 apps. Bleh.
I would like to see an architecture where the expensive app side of things is separated from the protocol. But that’s all speculative, I haven’t put work hours into it. Basically, if I have an idea for P2P chat, why do I need to re-invent emojis and channels and shit like that? I only want to iterate on transport. And if I have a better idea for channels, why would I have to re-invent the transport like XMPP and Matrix?
(The reason is that cutting those two apart is hard - But I will continue to wonder.)
Oh yeah the whole thing is a mess. It kind of blows my mind that we still don’t have a single common protocol that at least the open source world agrees on. Like there is a more or less fixed set of things chat apps need to do, we should be able to agree on something akin to ActivityPub here as a base.
