For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan’s podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because Fox News? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, “is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?”
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you’re always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
Well said. And honestly, it’s even counterproductive, because that assumption is a core reason why people view the establishment Left as patronizing and elitist.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite Onion videos: https://youtu.be/lpzVc7s-_e8 (I like Judith Butler, and I’ve even read some of Gender Trouble, but the premise and execution just gets me in stitches every time.)
Well, I don’t think you’re wrong about an informed/educated populace not being sufficient to overcome fascism, but I have a hard time seeing us overcoming it without some level of education.
Though obviously, the type of education matters (e.g., how kids are taught about Columbus is probably the most egregious example of a failure by the public school system to educate)
is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?
No, but it is the only logical conclusion of a nation that continues to venerate those genocidal landowners as heroes.
If you’re really going to sit here and pretend that none of the things I mentioned play a clear and obvious role in our current situation, I don’t even know where to start with you.
Strawman. Never did I say that the things you mentioned dont play a role in facilitating fascism.
Poor education, MIC, captured media, sure… all of these things facilitate fascism.
My point is that your analysis does not get at the heart of how fascism arises or why america is going full throated fascist in recent years. Why do we have poor education? Why do we have a bloated MIC? Why has our mainstream media been captured? Why is conservatism increasingly in fashion?
You’re not going to get to the heart of these questions by ignoring class. You’ll especially fail to answer these questions if you just blame some nebulous concept of “conservatism” wholesale. Youve correctly identified the symptoms, but you still need to take the next step w/ class-based, material analysis.
For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan’s podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because Fox News? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, “is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?”
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you’re always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
Well said. And honestly, it’s even counterproductive, because that assumption is a core reason why people view the establishment Left as patronizing and elitist.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite Onion videos: https://youtu.be/lpzVc7s-_e8 (I like Judith Butler, and I’ve even read some of Gender Trouble, but the premise and execution just gets me in stitches every time.)
Well, I don’t think you’re wrong about an informed/educated populace not being sufficient to overcome fascism, but I have a hard time seeing us overcoming it without some level of education. Though obviously, the type of education matters (e.g., how kids are taught about Columbus is probably the most egregious example of a failure by the public school system to educate)
No, but it is the only logical conclusion of a nation that continues to venerate those genocidal landowners as heroes.
If you’re really going to sit here and pretend that none of the things I mentioned play a clear and obvious role in our current situation, I don’t even know where to start with you.
Strawman. Never did I say that the things you mentioned dont play a role in facilitating fascism.
Poor education, MIC, captured media, sure… all of these things facilitate fascism.
My point is that your analysis does not get at the heart of how fascism arises or why america is going full throated fascist in recent years. Why do we have poor education? Why do we have a bloated MIC? Why has our mainstream media been captured? Why is conservatism increasingly in fashion?
You’re not going to get to the heart of these questions by ignoring class. You’ll especially fail to answer these questions if you just blame some nebulous concept of “conservatism” wholesale. Youve correctly identified the symptoms, but you still need to take the next step w/ class-based, material analysis.