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The same cell might be even better.

LOL, like Congress isn’t complicit. The Republicans are fully behind Israel starting WW3 to bring Jesus back, and Democrats are split, but will never impeach Biden over it.

I have no idea what to do about Biden, but an impeachment over this is a fantasy. The 2020 primary was our shot, and we blew it. The Biden presidency will be what it will be, but we can’t let Democratic voters forget their failure. Neoliberalism will end, or it will end us. It might already have done so, but time will tell.

For all the carnage that’s happened and all the carnage that’s about to happen, we need to (rhetorically) beat the neoliberals over the head for the 2020 primary. I don’t know if Bernie could have stopped any of this, but at least our hands would be clean. Fuck the notion that neoliberals are somehow “good enough”. They throw us a bone from time to time, but ultimately the only thing they are capable of generating in the long term is absolute disaster.

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You quoted me, then immediately misquoted me. I didn’t say what you think I said.

I’m getting downvotes because I’m telling a bunch of bubble communists that actual communication is more important than in-group signalling. No head scratches required. It’s why the left has been hopelessly ineffective for at least half a century.

I know exactly why I’m getting downvotes. No head scratches required.

It doesn’t have to be sexier terminology, or even different terminology. Just don’t drop the word “liberalism” into a conversation and expect the average person to understand what your talking about.

You could use “corporatism” which has kind of taken over that definition in common language. I know it’s technically incorrect, but language also isn’t static outside of academic disciplines. But ultimately you can use whatever language you want, just don’t assume a particular definition will be understood without explanation.

All I’m saying is that if you don’t take your audience into consideration, your message will be misunderstood. If you want to use the “correct” (more debatable than you think) terminology when that terminology isn’t well understood in the culture, then take the time to explain the language. Or keep scratching your head about why your getting downvotes and convincing nobody.

So that’s the change you want to see in the world. Technical linguistic grammar takes precedence over political outreach.

I fully support your desire to spread vocabular competence. My impression from your first post was that you had other priorities.

It’s tough to be critical of “liberalism” when everyone has a different idea of what it means. It might help to specify “economic liberalism”.

Along with it’s deep flaws, Liberalism is also associated with things like the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, LGBT+ rights, etc. Conservatives also muddy the waters by blaming these things for economic hardship.

If the US cut them off they would just turn to Russia. Putin and Netanyaho are like Putin and Trump. Russia would jump at the chance to broaden their foothold in the Middle East, and it would go perfectly with their narrative of fighting “Nazis” in Ukraine, and it would give the US a black eye.

The US should be doing far more to distance itself from what Israel is doing, but the only way it can actually stop it would be a committed invasion.

That’ll be in the history books.

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I literally didn’t.

You are literally correct. I got my threads mixed and I apologize. Still, claiming that…

every implementation of a communist state (or even a vaguely leftish state) is ruthlessly hunted down and destroyed by capitalist powers

… comes pretty darn close. Did America hunt down and destroy Communism in China, or is it still Communist?

Communism survives and China is eclipsing the US. And no, they’re not capitalist.

Well, no they aren’t. Since this discussion started with me saying that neither communism or capitalism can exist outside of ideological exorcises, you shouldn’t feel the need to tell me that.

The Party is in control, politics is in command, they are advancing so incredibly quickly because they don’t allow the market to run society or capital owners to be dictators.

Xi Jinping’s estimated net worth is $1.2b. Is that not capital? For comparison, Joe Biden’s net worth is $10m, though some estimates go up to $40m. Which country is run by capital owners again? If you think that Xi Jinping only makes capital allocation decisions in the interests of the average Chinese citizen, then I have a great wall to sell you.

By any means necessary.

And here I was actually taking you seriously.

I didn’t say that we actually are post scarcity, only that we could be if that were society’s priority. Take away all the useless work, and that doesn’t leave a whole lot to require coercion. Most of our food production is already pretty much automated, and most of the rest would be if coercion was taken off the table.

I don’t share your optimism on fusion, but that’s not very relevant since there are other technologies that I see as long term solutions. We also waste tons of energy, for instance Bitcoin alone is estimated to account for 2% of US electricity use.

I don’t think it says much for communism as an economic system if all the economic problems have to be resolved before it becomes possible.

I would argue that post scarcity is something that we could actually have today if it were a priority. Most of the work people do today is entirely unnecessary. What’s left could mostly be automated if that were a priority. Instead, what we see is consumer demand expanding to demand more and more stuff, and the majority of the workforce being employed in scams to help their employer collect power coupons.

Exactly, though I would say there are some ideals that are more realistic than others. I think the whole debate between communism and capitalism is largely a distraction from actual tangible change that can be achieved and sustained.

So, no communist country is going to exist until all capitalist countries go away or are somehow prevented from interference? When do you see that happening?

A system that can’t manage to sustain and defend it’s own existence is simply not realistic, no matter how idealistic.

You first claimed that Communism never actually existed, now you are saying that they were crushed by capitalism. Which is it? Communism died in those countries as the countries were formed.

You are giving capitalist countries way too much credit, but that’s a whole other web of individual discussions. Communism defeated itself, and what remained couldn’t compete with (what passes for) free markets in Western democracies.