Because, and anyone correct me if I’m wrong,
most people here know that what happened during the Tianenmen square insurrection was:
Soldiers, mostly the army choir, are ordered to come unarmed and clear the square after months of students protesting in favor of Usonian state-backed exploitative economic teachings.
100+ Soldiers killed, mostly the army choir, by insurrectionists at a road adjacent to the square.
Remaining army choir soldiers lead the protesters away through song from the square.
20+ Insurrectionists killed, as armed soldiers arrived and a battle broke out, on the same road.
100+ protesters killed, as a chaotic indirect consequence of the earlier insurrectionists’ actions, at a train station miles away.
Tanks arrive at the square to prevent further escalation.
Tanks leave the square as situation deescalated and tank man blocks the tanks for a while, then leaves, on the same road again.
These insurrectionists went a lot further than the Usonian Jan 6th protest mostly known as the “Freedom Plaza massacre” where “peaceful protesters” entered the capitol building in order to “stop election fraud” where “perhaps 10s of thousands civilian lives were killed as US security opened fire at these peaceful protesters”, because unlike CIA-backed insurrectionists, these “peaceful protesters” were ordered by their higher ups to leave immediately instead of being encouraged to block the US army from arriving at Capitol Hill or attack the US army for that matter.
Probably the official CPC figure of 241 killed in total. Most of the serious estimates broadly agree - NSA said 180-500, and the Tiananmen Mothers organisation have identified 198 of the dead.
Since we’re evidently reading the same Wikipedia article, I’ll point out that those are among the lowest estimates on the page and the Beijing hospital record was 478 dead and 920 wounded.
But these are all very different numbers from what was commented.
Well if you’re already reading a wiki article I’m not sure how you’d have trouble matching the source. As I said elsewhere they got the distribution wrong, but you’re making it sound like you’re just here to JAQ off.
IDK why you’re trying to source someone else’s comment for them, but if you read the comment and the wiki you would see that they are not in agreement.
This is why I asked for their source. Sorry if you find that offensive for some reason lol
Correct, as I said elsewhere they got the distribution wrong because they are working off memory, but it’s not difficult to link the numbers - they mistook the police and army as having the same number of deaths as civilian protestors rather than student protestors, but the total roughly matches and there’s only one source that makes that specific distinction between groups rather than a general guess at a total. I don’t understand why you’re so upset about being told the source after asking for the source.
Yes? I’m confused, is there no subject you’re familiar enough with to recognise sources?
Yes it does, it doesn’t qualify as a reference, but luckily you’re looking at the Wikipedia page so you can just click it instead.
Yes, people make mistakes, but luckily sometimes other people like me are around to correct them.
No, I can justify my attributionby the fact that there’s only one (1) source that lists the dead by faction, the numbers just show how they misremembered the specifics of the source.
This isn’t some complex chain of advanced logic, I really don’t understand what you’re having trouble with.
I think the numbers are a bit off - official Chinese figures were ~20 student protestors, ~20 police and army, and about 200 other protestors were killed.
Are you being sarcastic?
Because, and anyone correct me if I’m wrong,
most people here know that what happened during the Tianenmen square insurrection was:
These insurrectionists went a lot further than the Usonian Jan 6th protest mostly known as the “Freedom Plaza massacre” where “peaceful protesters” entered the capitol building in order to “stop election fraud” where “perhaps 10s of thousands civilian lives were killed as US security opened fire at these peaceful protesters”, because unlike CIA-backed insurrectionists, these “peaceful protesters” were ordered by their higher ups to leave immediately instead of being encouraged to block the US army from arriving at Capitol Hill or attack the US army for that matter.
I didn’t know i was on a joke sub, I guess.
Do you have a source for your estimate of deaths? 100+ is very ambiguous since it includes any number >100, which seems already beyond contention.
Probably the official CPC figure of 241 killed in total. Most of the serious estimates broadly agree - NSA said 180-500, and the Tiananmen Mothers organisation have identified 198 of the dead.
Since we’re evidently reading the same Wikipedia article, I’ll point out that those are among the lowest estimates on the page and the Beijing hospital record was 478 dead and 920 wounded.
But these are all very different numbers from what was commented.
Well if you’re already reading a wiki article I’m not sure how you’d have trouble matching the source. As I said elsewhere they got the distribution wrong, but you’re making it sound like you’re just here to JAQ off.
IDK why you’re trying to source someone else’s comment for them, but if you read the comment and the wiki you would see that they are not in agreement.
This is why I asked for their source. Sorry if you find that offensive for some reason lol
Correct, as I said elsewhere they got the distribution wrong because they are working off memory, but it’s not difficult to link the numbers - they mistook the police and army as having the same number of deaths as civilian protestors rather than student protestors, but the total roughly matches and there’s only one source that makes that specific distinction between groups rather than a general guess at a total. I don’t understand why you’re so upset about being told the source after asking for the source.
So just to clarify, you think that:
1.) you can provide the correct source for another person’s statement
2.) what you posted qualifies as a source even though you did not give one
3.) it’s OK if the statement does not agree with the source
4.) you can justify your misattribution by cherry-picking a number that “roughly” agrees if you massage it
Bruh.
Yes? I’m confused, is there no subject you’re familiar enough with to recognise sources?
Yes it does, it doesn’t qualify as a reference, but luckily you’re looking at the Wikipedia page so you can just click it instead.
Yes, people make mistakes, but luckily sometimes other people like me are around to correct them.
No, I can justify my attributionby the fact that there’s only one (1) source that lists the dead by faction, the numbers just show how they misremembered the specifics of the source.
This isn’t some complex chain of advanced logic, I really don’t understand what you’re having trouble with.
I think the numbers are a bit off - official Chinese figures were ~20 student protestors, ~20 police and army, and about 200 other protestors were killed.